cubase and vst's

hey, sorry i'm heaps new but i hear cubase is the way to go, this support for VST's whatever the fuck they are and you can integrate reason etc...

has anyone set up cubase and have a fair idea of the workings of it and perhaps are willing enough to give me a few pointers or five thousand?

and an explanation of vst's and how they could be used would be fucking wicked aswell

gday Cetra =)

i use cubase sx as my main audio production software, with VST synths and effects and reason, rebirth etc as re-wirse devices. its good as all programs can be used together. i would recommend it as logic is now only being created for MAC platform =( and sonar sounds gay... cubase isnt perfect but its good.

however, cubase may have a steep learning curve for begginers. although, most of the high end sequencers are all the same.

VST's are plug-ins (virtual synthesisers, effects, drum machines etc) that you can use inside your host sequencer (eg cubase sx). they are easy to setup and use. there are so many out there! they are software so, you dont have to have 100+ hardware synths in your room. vst effects can be used on individual tracks or on sub mixes etc and can be send or insert effects etc...

i learnt cubase by reading the manual. its really pretty easy to do most functions (if you have used sequencers before). i suggest you have a flick through the manual and have a bit of a play. there is too much in it to discuss from scratch. if you run into any trouble give me a pm if you like and ill try and help out.

the hardest thing would probably be to setup your soundcard / midicard correctly. again a bit of trial and error and reading the soundcard manual.

=)

don't really think there is a whole lot more to add after aural b

have you got any more specific questions cetra

I've found cubase to be really confusing and not very user friendly, so i've steered clear of it.. i like pro tools, for sequencing, and using vst's, just a personal opinion, its what i find easier.. don't know if either is better..

QUOTE (static @ Jun 22 2005, 04:05 PM)

I've found cubase to be really confusing and not very user friendly, so i've steered clear of it.. i like pro tools, for sequencing, and using vst's, just a personal opinion, its what i find easier.. don't know if either is better..

Gotta say I COMPLETELY agree with ya there. Done my Technical Production cert but cubase still confuses the fuck outta me.
Pro Tools all the way. Get the vst-rtas adaptor and you're raping it in.

There are heaps of good beginner books on Amazon.com for Cubase. They take you through the basics of midi, sequencing and the vst interface. Failing that the manual is very helpful (unlike many other products!)

Cheers,
MattR

yeah, i have reason pretty much down packed, well fuck no i'm a long way off, but every day i learn something new with it, i just want something that is more complete if that makes sense to produce actual songs as opposed to cool sounds.

QUOTE (Cetra3 @ Jun 25 2005, 07:22 PM)

i just want something that is more complete if that makes sense to produce actual songs as opposed to cool sounds.

Firstly, Reason is enough to produce actual songs (Szahala anyone?).

Moving from reason to cubase will give you a lot more flexibility in my opinion. The reasons (:/) i'd move to cubase would be (and these are all in my opinion):

- It has a much more accurate and powerful mixer. (reasons mixer is.. not quite as informative as youd like when mixing, i personally think the leds on the reason mixer are for show only)
- Its not limited to all the built in stuff (in fact some of the built in cubase stuff [effects/synths] are mediocre)
- you can update your synths and effects as they come out, not in a long awaited update, not to mention third party instruments are generally better than the built in reason ones
- it has a lot of power in its audio routing (although, they all do): effect sends, group channels
- you can drop audio files into the sequencer track (!!)
- you can use external midi devices
- you can mixdown parts of your track to a single audio track to save processing power relatively easily (good if your computer is pants)
- you can see all the audio waveforms, automation and midi data on the sequencer tracks
- automation is displayed and manipulated a lot better
- you can organise the sequencer a lot more with colours and folder tracks, naming of parts etc
- david hasselhoff uses it


So if none of those are important to you, stick with reason.. even i'll admit, getting from an idea onto the sequencer is quicker in reason (redrum!) than it is in cubase (until you start using shortcuts, templates and screen presets to their fullest)

If you want to see the difference between the reason built in instruments and effects to some third party ones check out demo's of these (if possible):

Instruments:
---------------
rgcAudio z3ta+ (now creamware z3ta+ i think) - a really nice virtual analog/waveshaping/does-almost-everything-except-granular synth (awesome for leads, pads).. interface is a little scary at first, but its actually rather good once you get used to it.

reFX Vanguard - another tasty synth but with less flexibility (but great for basslines and 303/Acid type bits)

Native Instruments Absynth - does pretty much everything, but interface is a little.. meh...

Novation V-Station - never got into it, but most people speak highly of it

GForce Software's MiniMonsta - really good software emulation of an analogue synth (after reading a huge discussion on kvraudio.com, it was highly regarded)

Luxonix Ravity(s) - worth checking out, for piano sounds, strings

Native Instruments Kontakt 2 - If you are gonna get a VST sampler, get this one.. and you pretty much need it with cubase, cause the built in drum machines are shite.. tho.. you can use reason's sampler in rewire if you bought reason.

Effects:
--------
Fabfilter's Volcano - the FabFilter One filter is highly regarded as being the nicest VST filter around... seriously.. my mum told me...

Pretty much anything from Voxengo - compression, mastering, eq etc see crunchessor, gliss eq and polysquasher

Spin Audio Roomverb M2 - very nice reverb pluggy.. play with presets... you'll see

Spin Audio SpinDelay - um.. it delays shit

OtiumFX Compadre - Nice compressor with sidechaining (for making batty house :P "call on MEEeeEEeeEEeeEEeeEEeeEE")

The Waves bundle... check things like Ultramaximiser for mastering, and RBass for bass mangling

... fark that took ages to write... hope someone reads it :P

QUOTE (Lusive @ Jun 26 2005, 02:25 PM)

Moving from reason to cubase will give you a lot more flexibility in my opinion. The reasons (:/) i'd move to cubase would be (and these are all in my opinion): - david hasselhoff uses it

QUOTE (Lusive @ Jun 26 2005, 02:25 PM)

Luxonix Ravity(s) - worth checking out, for piano sounds, strings

Edirol super quartet fits this bill even nicer. Killer pianos. Rock guitars and most of the other band instrumenst you could ask for.

ANd dont look past Refx JunoX2 for fucked up noises n shit.

wicked, i'll start looking round for those vst's on the web, are they expensive to buy?

QUOTE (Benzaah @ Jun 26 2005, 04:31 PM)

Edirol super quartet fits this bill even nicer. Killer pianos. Rock guitars and most of the other band instrumenst you could ask for. ANd dont look past Refx JunoX2 for fucked up noises n shit.

mmmm, i used this a while ago, must check it out again...

QUOTE (Cetra3 @ Jun 26 2005, 04:59 PM)

wicked, i'll start looking round for those vst's on the web, are they expensive to buy?

Depends how you look at it. A soft synth will be a lot cheaper than a hardware synth, but you are still looking at some dollars for most instruments.

zzsounds.com (assuming their prices are in US$)
----------------
Kontakt 2 -> AU$637
GForce Oddity -> AU$128
z3ta+ -> AU$258
Absynth -> AU$272.89

Cubase SX 3 on an educational discount i got for $629 (thanks uni)

If you own reason, then use the sampler inside that with rewire to save some cash.

Cubase does come with built in soft synths, and they are bareable, but really not desirable.

If Logic audio was still being made for pc, i think it would be the flat out winner (for value), considering its built in instruments are far better than (read: tasty) cubase's bundled ones.

ps. try z3ta+... if you havent noticed, i'm in love with it (we're going through a few relationship issues at the moment, i've been caught a few times using other synths behind its back, and this one time......... . ..)

I finally have my head around cubase

(kinda)

QUOTE

I finally have my head around cubase

yay! atleast i know it can be done

i just installed cubase sx 3 and got some vst samples from the net and WOW, just fucking WOW!

it's like there's another universe in this one program, i can see a world full of potential and it sounds so REAL!!

Of course i'll still use reason, i can rewire it into cubase pretty easy, just a pain that i don't have a faster cpu, anyways thanks heaps for your help and thanks lusive for the "vst's to get" list :P it's helped me out a lot.

QUOTE

ps. try z3ta+... if you havent noticed, i'm in love with it (we're going through a few relationship issues at the moment, i've been caught a few times using other synths behind its back, and this one time......... . ..)

wow, this absolutely kicks the pants off of everything i've ever heard before, i've gone through some of the presets and i almost prematurely ejaculated!

QUOTE (Cetra3 @ Jun 29 2005, 03:46 AM)

Of course i'll still use reason, i can rewire it into cubase pretty easy, just a pain that i don't have a faster cpu

yeah unfortunately thats the trade off with using live generating instruments over stored samples, but there are new systems just coming out called dual core, worth looking into as although theres not much hype about them cause they're wasted on most applications that aren't written to use both cores, cubase is designed for it.

I'm going to wait a bit longer for the competition to bring out there equivalent and hopefully see some price drops and then build a super cubase machine, roughly equivalent to a 6ghz p4.. thats alot of VST's at once (including reason3 rewired) with no resource issues

I havent tried SX3 yet but if its significantly better than 2 then it's going to be interesting.

finally just got cubase - but also got alberton live and it looks the dogs bollocks.

bye bye reason

This post has been edited by djdel on Jun 29 2005, 10:25 AM

lol, yeah i have reason ableton live and cubase sx 3,


a long while ago i found a copy of cubase but i didnt really get into it, luckily this time all the VST's that i found floating round on the net have managed to captivate me to the point of no return

QUOTE (Cetra3 @ Jun 29 2005, 04:16 AM)

and thanks lusive for the "vst's to get" list :P it's helped me out a lot. wow, this absolutely kicks the pants off of everything i've ever heard before, i've gone through some of the presets and i almost prematurely ejaculated!

Not a problem

z3ta blew me away when i first used it too.. the best thing is, as you get more familiar with it, it becomes more apparent just how cool it is... ie. you can take any of the waveforms.. and open the waveshaper and physically push the waveforms about with the mouse (think of the blur and smudge tools in photoshop)... plus you can apply simple waveshaping functions to the waveform (which arent destructive, ie. you can undo them)

not to mention the routing/modulation matrix, arpegiator, tons of envelopes, custom waveforms, effects (bitcrushing, distortion, chorus, flange, eq, compression, limiting...) xy pad...... from memory you can use the effects from it too as VST effects.. so its really a VSTi and VST plugin set...!

if you are gonna buy only one VSTi.. get it... absynth would be slightly better if it didnt look like and work like an alien sex contraption... :/ (cause it has granular synthesis, sample based oscillators and freeform envelopes that can be drawn in visually)

!!!!!!!----
oh and a redrum alternative VSTi was just released from FXPansion called GURU! i'm grabbing a demo now... check it on www.kvraudio.com *drool*

QUOTE (djdel @ Jun 29 2005, 10:55 AM)

finally just got cubase - but also got alberton live and it looks the dogs bollocks. bye bye reason

I've been tempted a few times to move to abelton.. but i think once you've spent enough time to pass the steep learning curve on something you should stick with it a bit more till you get to an advanced level

What does rock about abelton live is the way they've approached the live performance thing (god that sentence makes me sound retarded... duh),.... for this purpose i think i'l use it to do performances even though i make my tracks in cubase.. we'll see (need to get floor ready tracks first :D ).

yeah, ableton seems to handle live music a bit better than most programs
it's still not as diverse as the others... :p

QUOTE (Lasermad @ Jun 29 2005, 10:47 AM)

I'm going to wait a bit longer for the competition to bring out there equivalent and hopefully see some price drops and then build a super cubase machine, roughly equivalent to a 6ghz p4.. thats alot of VST's at once (including reason3 rewired) with no resource issues

You can make good music on computers half the power of what most mum and dad teams use to surf the web today. It's how you use it that counts. Save your cash and get something you can upgrade year on year rather than a big purchase so expensive you'll be paying off for the next 3 years.

Cheers,
Matt

QUOTE (Lusive @ Jun 26 2005, 06:40 PM)

If you own reason, then use the sampler inside that with rewire to save some cash

eeeewwww nnxt sucks, nn19 is worse......i say unless you are extremely tight on cash and against pirating, a good quality vst sampler is quite possibly the most important thing you can do.......kontakt 2 is great, well it sucks major amounts of ass until you realise that the edit all groups button being automatically on can be used to your advantage for quick loading of multiple samples and chopping across groups

motu machfive is useful right now but the sample loading is agitating....version 2.0 looks to be the dogs bollocks and then some, so give it a month or 2 and kontakt 2 could have major competition

Bah all these kids with there fang dangled gadgets. Remember its not the program it the person using it FL STUDIO ROXX!

fruity loops almost put me off producing music...

QUOTE (Azrael @ Jul 2 2005, 08:38 PM)

eeeewwww nnxt sucks, nn19 is worse......i say unless you are extremely tight on cash and against pirating, a good quality vst sampler is quite possibly the most important thing you can do.

Err... actually Narc and I use the NN19 exclusively, while Grady G works with Fruity Loops.

It’s not what you use; it is how you use it.

Cheers,
Matt

QUOTE (mattr @ Jun 30 2005, 10:34 PM)

You can make good music on computers half the power of what most mum and dad teams use to surf the web today. It's how you use it that counts. Save your cash and get something you can upgrade year on year rather than a big purchase so expensive you'll be paying off for the next 3 years. Cheers, Matt

You're right, you can do it all with alot less.. but the trade off is the time you have to spend freezing tracks/exporting wav files and generally fucking around to get around your resource issues.. i'd just prefer to have it all at the fingertips without those hassles to make the whole process more enjoyment than work.

The dual core stuff will be just as upgradeable as any other machine, and whats been released so far has come out at a fairly reasonable price, probably because they've spent craploads on research & development and they want it to take off and become standard, so it gets introduced fairly cheap to gain support.

Each to their own i guess, sure it's gonna cost me but i'm sure it will be worth it

QUOTE (mattr @ Jul 3 2005, 02:07 PM)

QUOTE (Azrael @ Jul 2 2005, 08:38 PM) eeeewwww nnxt sucks, nn19 is worse......i say unless you are extremely tight on cash and against pirating, a good quality vst sampler is quite possibly the most important thing you can do. Err... actually Narc and I use the NN19 exclusively, while Grady G works with Fruity Loops. It’s not what you use; it is how you use it. Cheers, Matt

of course it is....but if better, more logically made, more powerful stuff is out there, why use the shit....its not what you use is not a strong argument for using reason, its just a strong argument for not complaining if you are only using reason

QUOTE (Azrael @ Jul 3 2005, 09:42 PM)

of course it is....but if better, more logically made, more powerful stuff is out there, why use the shit....its not what you use is not a strong argument for using reason, its just a strong argument for not complaining if you are only using reason

There are lots of beginners out there that get swamped with all the technology available and many get caught up in the hype cycle for what ever the latest trend is. The result is that lots of beginners end up with a large credit debt and a bunch of products too complicated for them to use. So they give up.

I'm just presenting realistic options for beginners and people on a budget. Start out simple and when your ready to progress to the next level you'll be able to make the decisions for yourself based on your experience and own requirements and not some random internet thread.

Cheers,
Matt

QUOTE (Lasermad @ Jul 3 2005, 03:30 PM)

i'd just prefer to have it all at the fingertips without those hassles to make the whole process more enjoyment than work.

I know what you mean. I used to work that way but now prefer working with bounced material. I found that having the freedom to fiddle was far more time consuming than bouncing!

You might want to checkout the Steinberg site. SX2 had major problems working with two processors. I don't know if this has been fixed in SX3.

Cheers,
Matt

QUOTE (mattr @ Jul 4 2005, 11:12 AM)

There are lots of beginners out there that get swamped with all the technology available and many get caught up in the hype cycle for what ever the latest trend is. The result is that lots of beginners end up with a large credit debt and a bunch of products too complicated for them to use. So they give up. I'm just presenting realistic options for beginners and people on a budget. Start out simple and when your ready to progress to the next level you'll be able to make the decisions for yourself based on your experience and own requirements and not some random internet thread.

matt - i 100% agree with you!!!

i am a firm believer in what you have said and think that over the last 5 years, the amount of shit being produced and released has increased immensely.. this is mainly due to the accessibility of such powerful programs and the abundance of vst's available for people to use.

start off small. work with what you have to the best of its limits as possible.. then slowly build from there. the key isnt what ure using, its building the foudnations and your own unique style that is important.

QUOTE (mattr @ Jul 4 2005, 11:12 AM)

QUOTE (Azrael @ Jul 3 2005, 09:42 PM) of course it is....but if better, more logically made, more powerful stuff is out there, why use the shit....its not what you use is not a strong argument for using reason, its just a strong argument for not complaining if you are only using reason There are lots of beginners out there that get swamped with all the technology available and many get caught up in the hype cycle for what ever the latest trend is. The result is that lots of beginners end up with a large credit debt and a bunch of products too complicated for them to use. So they give up. I'm just presenting realistic options for beginners and people on a budget. Start out simple and when your ready to progress to the next level you'll be able to make the decisions for yourself based on your experience and own requirements and not some random internet thread. Cheers, Matt

i just dont believe in starting on reason if you are just going to upgrade when you get better...cos you will just have to learn something new....one sequencer, one sampler, one synth, one drum sampler, a bunch of effects is all i think is needed aswell......but ableton/cubase/logic/pro tools le with kontakt, absynth, battery and maybe the waves bundle or something of that ilk shouldnt be a far stretch from reason....its still all the same stuff...its just that that same stuff works better......yes on a tight budget and being against cracked software, reason 3.0 will do the job....i am just stating that i think if this person you were advising has cubase already, wasting it by rewiring a poor quality sampler into it seems a tad pointless...you are still using a technical sequencer...you are just using a second rate sampler in a pcu hungry form, in an annoying manner

i dont know where this idea that a sequencer with a few vsts is far more technical than reason.....anyone who buys into the 'i must have every new piece of kit and software' thing is obviously on the wrong track....anyone who thinks you cant make great tracks in reason is also wrong...i just know i cant see myself advocating reason ever again atm...it just got on my nerves in the end, and i actually find it easier to do things in other programs...especially experimenting with sound

some good points have been made..

i agree that buying into hype of the latest and greatest can be a distraction from what you are really trying to achieve, writing music. you could spend all day twidling with the latest shit and never get anything done...

however, if you intend to eventually be working on a DAW style sequencing program, like cubase, logic, protools... learning reason is not going to be a step in the right direction in my opinion... you are best off jumping right into one of the above..

though, how will you know when first starting off if reason will eventually be a bottleneck to your needs..? so i guess my inclination when talking to people who are starting out is to impress on them to learn in an environment that follows closer to a standard as such.. this being a multitrack DAW with VSTi's.. which they can then replace the VSTi's later with hardware, they can replace the multitrack with another one that feels the way they want.. they can expand to outboard effects..

but after writing all this (i think about 10 times more than what ges written down), i have come to a conclusion that each person is going to respond to an interface differently.. some of us may have started on the right one for our needs, and some of us will move from one to another eventually once we can identify which one works with us, not against us.. i think in this context is where the statement: "it's not what you use, but how you use it" fits in.

QUOTE

i am a firm believer in what you have said and think that over the last 5 years, the amount of shit being produced and released has increased immensely.. this is mainly due to the accessibility of such powerful programs and the abundance of vst's available for people to use.

although it produces more shit, its a healthy thing for a scene to have more people become active in it... when the core original producers start pulling out rather than innovating.. then you worry

losing coherent thoughts... meh....

hmm Azrael do u really think Reason's sampler is that bad? i swear i couldnt pick the difference between a wave sampled in kontakt and one sampled in the NN19

Honestly, I've heard some god damn gobsmacking amazing stuff being made purely with reason. Szahala uses it and makes some of the the best produced dance music going around. I think it's definately a case of it being the person and not the software.

I for one have only ever used logic as my sequncer and esx 24 as my sampler , and find it to be the perfect combination , but i must say reason looks damn attractive to me and the only drawback as far as using it is that its not compatable with logic , yeah i know in cubase you can use it but that means to me another year of learning the software , and im writing tunes with out it so logic it is .

my advice is try a few options and use the one that feels right for you , for example Narc cranks out tunes in reason , so he goes that direction , but that doesnt mean its the right choice for all .

I know many people who write quality music using sonic foundry acid , a simple sample based program , and the tunes are rocking !!!

so there are many options available , and the end result will be the same ............ we all write MUSIC !!!

And thats the bottom line .


PS , my fav vst's are

trilogy
stylus
atmosphere
vanguard
korg legacy cell
and my trusty esx 24 sampler !!!

QUOTE (Lusive @ Jul 5 2005, 12:56 AM)

QUOTE i am a firm believer in what you have said and think that over the last 5 years, the amount of shit being produced and released has increased immensely.. this is mainly due to the accessibility of such powerful programs and the abundance of vst's available for people to use. although it produces more shit, its a healthy thing for a scene to have more people become active in it... when the core original producers start pulling out rather than innovating.. then you worry

thats true as well but its a separate argument from what im trying to get at.

i think the pure fundamentals are being lost these days with the advancement and availability of easy to use software. with this software, it is so easy to make something that sounds like its been PRODUCED professionally, but from an actual song writing perspective, its utter shit and is actually a rubbish song, unless you are either tone deaf, or have the music turned up extremely loud (eg. at a rave) and can't hear any difference.

another way of putting it: a beginner starts writing music.. musically its terrible, basslines and melodies that sound like a toddler ran across the keyboard. sounds like a piece of turd. however, because of these programs, it's a polished piece of turd.

i think this is pulling the standard of electronic/dance music down considerably. not to say there isnt still the usual gems. its just you gotta go through a lot more shit to get to the good stuff.

pretty obviously id be in agreement with phorte on this sort of stuff
the same idea can be extended to excessive sampling.. people can just sample blindly without realing thinking about it and some of it may sound 'ok'. but technically it could just be turd and they havent really broken the barrier as to how music is created.
i heard a lemon d song on some valve cd that has this EXACT 8 bar rhodes loop that ive got on a sample cd. and hes got this piano melody next to it that is so cheap lol. u kind of think 'hmmm the pianos are sort of shit but this guy is a fucking good rhodes player!!'. and then u realise its entirely sampled.
i just felt like bitching about that cos i always hear stuff like that lol

QUOTE (Phorte @ Jul 5 2005, 12:03 PM)

thats true as well but its a separate argument from what im trying to get at.

mmm. yeah, my bad... i see the point you were making and i agree for sure.. i was losing the plot at that stage of the evening.. hah

i am definitely greatful tho, to have the accessibility of capable synthesizers/samplers in software form.. your comment about polished turds definitely pinpoints a problem.. but essentially, people who ARE capable of writing really decent music (if only i was one of them already) can now do it on a much lower budget, from their home. on reason or whatever they choose..

anyone seen the info a while back about using video card processing power for audio purposes?.. cant remember the address of it... bionic something... bionic FX ... mm.. anyways... it sounded quite interesting for those that didnt see the info, it was a bunch of people talking about using modern Video card GPU's to accellerate audio calculations.. thik a mini makeshift uad/powercore in your video card...

QUOTE (Suni @ Jul 5 2005, 03:36 AM)

hmm Azrael do u really think Reason's sampler is that bad? i swear i couldnt pick the difference between a wave sampled in kontakt and one sampled in the NN19

its not really a case of a problem with the sound coming out of it, im sure i would struggle to hear the difference most of the time aswell.....its a problem with the restrictions, and also little niggling problems here and there with them

if you can make good music with kontakt 2 and a DAW you arent suddenly going to lose that capability when using nnxt and reason....skilled music producers are skilled music producers...end of story....if anyone thinks they are making bad music purely because of reason they are deluding themselves.....but i still find reason to be in some areas quite lacking

little simple things in nnxt like the lack of a visible envelope or a flexible envelope....its a niggling problem, not one that is going to make and break a track, but in kontakt i can see my envelope, and i can simply play with a flexible envelope...its basic ease of use shit, and if i have to choose to have it or not, i am going to have it

the lack of control over the waveform...if i get to choose between chopping my sample in wavelab and importing it...or having the ability to chop it in kontakt and go back and change where i have chopped and sorted in kontakt at any time i am going to choose to have that option....again, basic practicality stuff...but i would prefer that basic practicality

dont know if reason 3 has upgraded automation, but the lack of full automation in any part of reason 2.5 is extrememly annoying for a program that new....automation i find to be very important, and although a largish percentage of the time i could automate the things i wanted to automate, it still wasnt fully comprehensive, which is never a worry in kontakt through a DAW or anything in a DAW( i know there is a work around but without a high quality keyboard/controller it is awfully fiddly)....if i have to choose between full automation that is very easy to use, or not, i am going to want full automation

i have other problems but its probably not worth going into the debate too far, whatever the user is happy with is the important part


but a quick question to bongo...how sure are you that the final studio engineering in szahala tunes is done in a reason.....cos id be willing to put very good money on his tunes being engineered in pro tools before release....however phenomenal you believe reason to be as a production program, which there is no doubt it can be( i mean screw szahala tunes, look at the output of phorte and suni lately), it really cannot be considered as an engineering program...i think even the most dedicated reason freak would be crazy not to have their tunes mixed down in something like pro tools before mass commercial release

This post has been edited by Azrael on Jul 5 2005, 09:33 PM

QUOTE (Azrael @ Jul 5 2005, 08:28 PM)

however phenomenal you believe reason to be as a production program, which there is no doubt it can be( i mean screw szahala tunes, look at the output of phorte and suni lately)

hahahahaha thanks